16. Marketing The Product Responsible for Pro Athletes Getting Better Sleep w/ Tara Youngblood

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On this episode of Marketing Behind the Curtain, we sit down with Tara Youngblood, CEO of Chili Technologies. Their product, the ChiliPAD, is extremely popular among professional athletes, biohackers, and trainers across the US. She gave us the scoop on what practices have enabled her team to see such great success within the e-commerce world.

We’ll also touch on:

  • Why video content is the most compelling for e-commerce
  • How archetype models inform your marketing
  • Production tips when it comes to video
  • Good channels to start with for content marketing including Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, podcasting, and user-generated content

Transcript of the Episode

[00:00:03] At the end of the day, with all that no talk, it really is about your messaging and your imagery and your content. And if you don’t invest in that sort of higher end, look, even if you drive lots of traffic, you won’t be able to convert them.

[00:00:20] You’re listening to the Marketing Behind the Curtain podcast where we pull back the curtain on the people, processes and technologies leading marketers are using to fuel growth within their organizations. Let’s get into the show.

[00:00:35] Welcome to Marketing Behind the Curtain, where we take a look at all the hard work that happens by marketers to put a shiny outward face on organizations of all types. I’m your host Devin Kelley with Method Savvy, a consultancy that helps ambitious leaders find better ways to grow their business. Today, I’m here with Tara Youngblood and she is the founder and also CEO or co-CEO Tara, which which is best?

[00:01:01] My husband Todd and I are co-founders, but he does the operations side. I get to do the executively making sure other parts run.

[00:01:10] I guess you get the title right. The CEO title.

[00:01:15] That’s right. That means I get a bigger vote.

[00:01:18] There you go. And of Chili Technology. So talk to us a little bit about Chili and just what that is.

[00:01:24] And then if you can roll into kind of the introduction of yourself beyond the CEO title, which I know could speak for itself.

[00:01:32] Yeah, Chili technology. We sell sleep products. That’s the ChiliPad part. If you follow a lot of biohackers, like a Tim Ferriss or Dave Asprey might have heard us and some of those. But we are basically all about sleep and most specifically about temperature and sleep. So the other in ChiliPAD allow you to adjust the temperature of your bed between fifty five and one hundred and ten.

[00:01:58] I feel like one hundred and ten is the high end of that scale.

[00:02:01] It is, although you’d be surprised. You know, a lot of people have a lot of people that go through cancer treatment or some of those other things, even fibromyalgia, most pain metrics to think about sleeping cooler.

[00:02:13] But for some people, if their nervous system is a little wonky, they have a hard time warming up enough to fall asleep.

[00:02:19] Oh, well, tell us a little bit about the story here and being in both an executive seat, but also a founder here. How has Chili grown and talked to us a little bit about, you know, that that story overall and sounds like it’s a husband and wife team from the start.

[00:02:35] It is a Todd and I have brought over a hundred different products to market. So we kind of have the entrepreneurial bug and certainly the sort of inventor or product development bug specifically. And ChiliPAD came about actually the peak time in marketing where Comfort and Tempur-Pedic, we’re talking about pressure and about the same time microclimate control and seats came out in cars. And it seemed like if you could drive at two separate temperatures, you sure as heck should be able to sleep at two different temperatures. And so that’s really where it started. Todd’s uncle invented the waterbed. So we’d always been sort of playing around with how to modernize that and make it a little bit less cumbersome to try to build a sleek product into. So that’s kind of where it started. My background is in physics and sort of the engineering and Todd is in business. We met on the first day of college London time ago. We won’t get into the details of the date, but we’ve been kind of doing that journey ever since. So that’s where how we got to today.

[00:03:39] Awesome. And talk a little bit about how in having a broader range of experience bringing products to market, how did the Chili products largely go to market now?

[00:03:49] What what are you guys kind of strategies to bring what’s still a fairly new idea to the marketplace and do some education for customers around this. I think different than some products that are really just finding your kind of slice of the pie. You guys are kind of creating a pie here with a relatively new idea. And you see this with mattresses and all these other kind of innovations in the sleep space today. But have you guys look to kind of create a place for the idea of temperature and sleep?

[00:04:21] That is a really great question. So we started out our background was definitely in brick and mortar, sold to all the major retailers and started out thinking that was our path to market. Turns out when you sell brick and mortar, you’re only selling one person at a time and you have to train that salesperson in and educate them about sleep, which for us was a really big burden because, again, no one had ever heard of us. You don’t go to a store to buy a new TV would be great. You know where to go. We kind of have an idea going in what you want to buy for us. That’s not the case. So we really have to educate people on what we can do and how our product works. So the boom of e-commerce has been a boom for us. Once we went all on e-commerce, that’s really when we started doubling and now we’re 10x in three years, basically. So we’re we’re on the INC5000 list this year. A lot of that growth is all attributed to not that brick and mortar is bad, but for us it’s it allows a different conversation about health and wellness and sleep that is really hard to do in a brick and mortar scenario.

[00:05:29] Awesome, and congrats on the INC5000, and I know that e-commerce can be a good path for a lot of folks, especially in today’s environment,  it certainly makes the last few months a little easier to weather. But talk a little bit about that change. And, you know, having had a lot of experience bringing products to market, did you have to bring some different people on board and kind of round out the team differently, running an e-commerce business differently than a retail business?

[00:05:56] Yeah, so we did bring on different talent sets, obviously, to sort of round out Todd and I certainly from our experience, we believe in people have different zones of genius and we work really hard to try to surround ourselves with people that complements our zones of genius. And certainly for e-commerce was one of them. We’ve also done a bunch of boot camp kind of scenarios where we’ll do a consultant for a period of time and really grow and learn to figure out how to do that. The last year is a good example. We used to have all of our e-commerce web design, all of that offsite with other marketing agencies, and we’ve brought that in-house as we felt confidence to be able to do to run and produce that content, as well as the engineering ourselves.

[00:06:43] And in that process of kind of learning how to you can operate this e-commerce business. Did you find that a lot of those e-commerce strategies or that you mentioned web development, stuff like that, did you find that those were things that you guys were just capable of doing in-house, where the things that you felt like, hey, maybe this just isn’t that complicated once you get your hands on it, like, what was the thought process there on, you know, kind of learning the ropes of e-commerce and knowing that it changes all the time, too. But it sounds like you guys were able to learn your way into what’s effective in this business.

[00:07:20] Yeah. So I really feel like the key to learning new skills in business of any kind is about the KPIs. It’s about the numbers about understanding what are the key drivers. And one of the key parts, e-commerce is no different to understanding traffic and how much spend you should have against what traffic you have. You can’t have one without the other. If you obviously aren’t working on cultivating. You can’t retarget all those fun things that you do on e-commerce.

[00:07:48] So it’s a really you can’t look at just one metric and say, OK, well, I’m just going to focus on that. It really is a blend of all those different numbers. And then when you combine that with the more traditional operations of inventory management, customer service and shipping and all those different dynamics, there is, yeah, it’s all about the numbers.

[00:08:08] And, you know, it sounds like you guys in kind of growing this business about to learn and understand those KPIs and you’re coming from the kind of retail or model or some of the differences and just understanding what you focus on from an e-commerce KPI perspective versus maybe a more retail-focused one.

[00:08:26] Yeah, you know, actually, I think at the end of the day, with all that no talk, it really is about your messaging and your imagery and your content, certainly on a product like ours, which is new and different.

[00:08:38] And it’s really easy for people to assume that it is expensive to do photo shoots or video is really now the up and coming way to communicate. And if you don’t invest in that sort of hire and look that that conversation, that education, that content you even if you drive a lots of traffic, you won’t be able to convert them. So it is it all of those pieces together. But it’s amazing how much the impact of those pretty pictures can have on the end of the day on the e-commerce. And that’s you know, once you do packaging for a retailer, you’re kind of done that you don’t have to play around with creative on a constant basis, maybe switch out packaging once a year or twice a year. It’s not a constant play with new content every single week.

[00:09:26] That’s a that’s an interesting parallel. I hadn’t thought about the similarity between packaging in the retail or environment, like kind of the idea of the imagery on the e-commerce side. But I guess what are some of your takeaways? You know, I think that the idea of content around a sleep product is kind of interesting, right? Are these just people sleeping? Like how do you get a high end look for ultimately something where, you know, most of us are awake for it? So what has been the kind of trick to higher and more quality content for something that’s that’s tough to create content around? I imagine it is.

[00:10:03] It is. And we struggle because we actually don’t sell a mattress. The chili pad is just a mattress pad. And so the complicating part is as soon as soon as you put two people in a bed, they sort of assume that you’re selling a mattress. So there are lots of nuances on how we communicate that.

[00:10:19] But I think lighting is one of the really phenomenal things, especially for our product that’s at night. So you want to try to communicate that it’s comfortable. And it feels good, but if it’s too dark, you can’t see in the picture, so the lighting of creating something that looks like moonlight or early morning light versus just dark or just in a bedroom or super bright lights, those are some of the subtleties that really will separate a cheap photo shoot from an expensive one.

[00:10:50] And you mentioned the idea of the range of temperatures that you guys cover before. And I imagine that when you think about lighting and what you’re trying to communicate and darker and blues, I imagine far more on the cool side of things. But if you want a message to the folks that are more looking for work, there’s a whole different category there. Does that play into creative and seasonality? Is that how you think about different pieces like that?

[00:11:17] Yeah, it’s really fun. And the metrics, again, back to the data on this is phenomenal.

[00:11:23] So we use an AI tool where we run all of our imagery through and we can play around with what audience? So it’s not just about a general audience, but it’s understanding for us. We have a specific archetype in the blue big five oceans personalities as what we measure to. But there’s lots of archetype models out there. But it is really important to know your audience and the different colors and what the models are doing. What they’re saying without saying anything is all really important to connect to that archetype of your customer.

[00:12:00] Yes, talk a little bit about the process there and going from understanding that customer to kind of selecting what photography to use, then selecting kind of how you go to market with this and how you address different audiences, because I imagine there’s a variety of audiences that are worth kind of focusing on and using different strategies for, say, how to end. And do you take those, you know, maybe core archetypes or that core message that you have and kind of bring that all the way to the consumer? And it sounds like a lot of that works happening in-house now. So maybe how it’s it’s working a little bit differently in the recent past.

[00:12:34] Yeah. So, you know, I think people if you’re in the e-commerce space, you’ve probably heard about a look alike audience or understanding at least who your audience is.

[00:12:42] The archetype part really gets into a little bit more of the psychology of why people buy and why people connect, why they click through. And so that’s just a level sort of deeper than just creating a look alike audience to target. And it, again, depends. There’s lots of different ones out there. When we look at the archetype, there are different trends on what they buy, what they’re thinking about. You know, a lot of our audience has pets. They tend to like the outdoors. I tend to be a little bit more adventurous. And so if our imagery is is very stagnant or very mellow, actually doesn’t connect very well with our audience. They want to live a bigger life. And if they’re going to invest and sleep so that they can live a bigger life and we have to communicate that to that archetype. And so it is, as we do for photo shoots, as we do our storyboards or interior design. It is very much with an idea of what that person’s looking like and what they’re currently buying.

[00:13:43] So we have a sense on where else they might be going. And we often use a lot of those other sort of magazine type views of what else do they like, what else they find pleasing to purchase.

[00:13:56] Yeah, and you mentioned the kind of variety of ways to think about archetypes or personas, but it sounds like you guys have selected one that you’re comfortable with. You want to talk a little bit about why you found that one to work best and kind of how that compares to maybe others that haven’t worked or just didn’t work for you guys.

[00:14:14] Yeah. So we’ve experimented with personas a lot. We’ve played around with some of the more traditional ones. When we looked at building our website of magician and those sort of traditional sort of business archetypes, we got to the Big Five oceans, one, honestly, because the A.I. software that we use in order to identify our customers and understand those different metrics of demographics and things like that, they engrain to it.

[00:14:44] And it seemed easier to apply that across the whole system once we had, because they although they do vary, it’s a lot of the same information. So picking one that fits within your data points, having five is a good number for us, gotra.

[00:14:59] And I want to get to the technology you’re using and maybe some of the other tech that kind of makes up the stack.

[00:15:06] But you mentioned interior design and also mentioned photography. But it’s interesting, you also some of the key points you made about your customers that they really are looking to. You’re identifying them based on lots of things they’re doing that aren’t sleep-related. Right. They’re very active. They’re busy people. They’re adventurous. But then you’re kind of bringing this messaging back, this photography back, this video back to some place. It is kind of very personal in a bed and a bedroom and nighttime and those types of things. And I’m interested in how you just think about the idea of, you know, kind of all these people doing all this active adventure stuff and then kind of boiling it down. And whether it’s the interior design or the you mentioned photography already, but then you have to translate that to the bedroom. Like, how does that work and how do you guys think about that? It seems like there’s a very good understanding of the customer that we probably see every day and probably looks like a lot of advertising we all see every day. But we probably aren’t seeing kind of bedroom interior designs in most of the advertising we’re seeing.

[00:16:22] Yeah. So I think, you know, one of our demographics is professional athletes. They’re not necessarily purchasing on e-commerce, but it’s a good example because everyone can kind of identify what that might look like.

[00:16:35] We have, you know, in the bubble currently, we have a bunch of teams sleeping on our products. And, you know, for those guys, it’s really a great example of they’re not looking to necessarily sleep better. They want to take sleep off the list. They want to recover better. They want to make their careers last longer. They want to have a bigger, better life. And they need sleep to be its very best without thinking about it too hard. So, again, what we’re trying to reach in that interior design are those more casual environments or that sort of a type personality that wants to is willing to invest a little bit more to get the better health outcome. We’re really looking at connecting with someone that’s investing in that. So it’s it isn’t really about sleep in the end. It really is about that sort of performance and what your day looks like and how do we how we can act in a way that makes that a worthwhile investment for people.

[00:17:30] Gotcha. Well, I will let us get back to the technology side of things who have heard this this AI tool mentioned a couple of times.

[00:17:38] So I’m interested in kind of what you guys are using that that’s powering some of the kind of consumer insights that you’re seeing and also how those are kind of coming to market. So especially since you guys have brought some of this in-house, it sounds like you’re pretty acquainted with some of this technology and how it fits into the e-commerce world. So walk us through kind of what are the essentials for you guys to just run day to day?

[00:18:00] Yeah. So, you know, I guess if you’re starting out, there’s obviously Facebook and Instagram and Googolplex and all of those normal e-commerce plays, I don’t think we’re doing anything radically different. The things that we have added are YouTube and video. We do a lot of podcast advertising and things like that. The genius is a new platform that we’ve just gotten on. And again, it really is focusing on, you know, a B testing can be really expensive as you play with your marketing dollars and it’s to skinny out every little bit we can. And in this case, if we can run our content through basically an AI filter, that will determine whether how that image ranks for our particular audience that we’re trying to hit, it allows us this ability to skip some of the AB testing and be able to send out our ad content a little bit more confidently, just like you would with an AB test. So we are all about sort of how do you skinny out the time and effort and money into understanding how to do the best thing and find your most the highest performing ad or the highest performing converter? We want to get there the fastest we can.

[00:19:17] Gotcha. So I like the thinking there.

[00:19:20] And I think one of the coolest places in marketing today is some of the technology or data you can get back on things like creative and really like fuel. You’re creative with some of the insights that maybe took a long time or had to be focus grouped or whatever in the past.

[00:19:39] But how I guess the prerequisite to being able to kind of use a tool like that is to have a lot of imagery. Right. To have a lot of options. So how do you think of just boiling this down to pure production, making sure that you have the assets that you need to be able to filter out the best performers from the worst ones and vice versa? Because while you may be spending less on advertising because you learn a little quicker, you may be spending more on the production side in order to kind of have the fuel to the fire. So what is the start of that process look like kind of pre-technology just to make sure that you don’t run out of photos a couple of weeks later?

[00:20:19] Yeah. So, you know, it is a combination of UGC, which is user generated content.

[00:20:25] And we have some platforms like Coley that we use to try to get UGC. That doesn’t help you as much on your website is you really have to keep that content much tighter. But as far as generating always having a supply of campaign ready social posts for social ads, the UGC is a great way to go in-house. We think about it in terms of really like inventory. So we do a photo, big photo shoot at least once to twice a year. We have in-house photography and video that’s available at all times so we can create content. covid was a really good example of, you know, in a lot of companies were sort of stopped. We have the flexibility of and being nimble enough to make new content, make content that was appropriate. So you couldn’t be off topic at any point. And there was a lot of different topics floating around this spring and try to stay up with that. And on topic for social media ads allowed us to be always pertinent. And in that conversation, no matter what was going on in the world and that that nimble ability, I think, allows us to squeak through and again squeeze out more where other ads were like, OK, that doesn’t make any sense anymore. This is a whole different world suddenly.

[00:21:40] Yeah. I mean, it’s a great point, a great value to having kind of the in-house resources to be able to kind of adapt, especially when things get weird as they did this year.

[00:21:52] But in terms of other tech that you guys are using, you know, it sounds like some of the basics there from an average. Losing perspective, experimenting more with the different types of imagery and creative, you know, anything kind of unique or interesting on the website side, on the checkout side. What about some of the basics of e-commerce that I think are all changing for us, know kind of week to week year?

[00:22:16] Yeah. So just one last note on the assets, digital assets.

[00:22:20] I would recommend if you’re getting to any size at all, a digital asset management tool, one where you can share assets that allows you to be able to serve up multiple different formats really quickly and share across designers. Certainly in our remote world, none of our designers are living under our roof right now. So it allows a lot of flexibility and allows you to get up work or freelance much more easily if you kind of own the management tool of that. But on the e-commerce side, we are a Shopify platform, so we use Shopify and lots of different plug ins there. That’s a huge long vendor lists Shopify plugins even know where to start, but we use Yelp for reviews. And I think that there’s a lot of different ways in which you can, again, squeeze out money. And it’s all about making sure that you’re really thinking about that entire customer journey. And when you think about if you were to do it in person back to the storefront, you would have to say something as they walk in the store or you’d have to have a storefront that would attract them in. And you need to make sure that you’re having conversations along the way with email and text and not just adds a lot of people. Certainly, we have a fairly high Alvie. And when you get to that higher price points, people need more conversations to get to buy. So you have to really prepare all those different conversations. And it’s it isn’t just one conversation ever.

[00:23:51] Yeah, I think that the similarities between kind of an e-commerce customer journey and a retail buying process are a good way to think about the fact that especially with a higher price point, you know, there’s conversation that has to occur and you can’t just pummel everything with calls to action and buy buttons, as it’s often maybe too easy to do on the e-commerce side. So have you guys thought about just kind of balancing that out? And it sounds like the retail experience is a good foundation there, but it’s, you know, especially with the wrong KPIs, it’s very easy to say, like, what’s the value created per email or can we throw another buy button on there? Or are are we being forceful enough with these assets?

[00:24:35] Yeah, I think email is a really good one. It’s really powerful to have a big email list. But, you know, again, you have to be careful on how you get those emails, whether they’re qualified email list, whether they’re people that are actually going to open it.

[00:24:50] And there is a risk when you ask someone for their email that you scare them away if it’s too soon in that conversation. So it’s kind of like it’s like dating. And the first thing you ask someone is, I want your phone number is a little awkward. So you kind of have to like, say at least higher, buy dinner first before you ask for their phone number. And getting emails is pretty similar. You have to kind of warm them up a little bit before you hit them up for their what in their cases are personal information.

[00:25:18] Yeah. And you’ve mentioned video a couple of times on here around content, but also just the role that it plays. How have you guys thought about that either from an advertising perspective or just on the site in general with video as a medium and kind of being able to communicate that way?

[00:25:37] Because I remember you starting kind of early on and talking about the in-store experience, and I think you could definitely make the argument that video allows you to kind of have that experience much more broadly, kind of without the, you know, the underlying foundational costs of the brick and mortar environment. So how have you guys thought about video and kind of the place that it plays?

[00:25:56] Yeah, well, first and foremost, video is really ruling the KPIs as far as algorithms and preference.

[00:26:04] So, you know, first of all, it’s become way more effective as a marketing tool than just stagnant photos for the most part. So there’s just an ongoing push to have more. And it’s is a heavier lift. It’s not as easy as just taking a camera and taking a picture. You really have to plan and make that work. So for us, video is very much part of that investment. And in the conversation, it’s about, again, we’re dating that customer. So you want to set a stage, you want to have the conversation. We have a fair amount of education that needs to happen. And video allows way more time. People are more tolerant and listening to a video for and you get a whole 30 seconds out of someone versus ten seconds or less on an image. So it’s just more time as to start that conversation to really kind of draw them in.

[00:26:55] And have you guys been using YouTube advertising or other? Video advertising in your efforts?

[00:27:01] Yeah, see TV we’ve played around with I think next year we may even do some TV we play around with a little bit. It tends to be more expensive.

[00:27:13] But our on all of that right now is is phenomenal for video. I think it’s again, it’s part of a being a weird year. A lot more people at home watching more videos on their phone. So we’re able to take advantage of that. But it’s way outperforming other other avenues from rollout’s perspective.

[00:27:34] Yeah. We’ve seen similar kind of experiences there. And I think partially and this will change eventually. But you’ve highlighted the value of kind of creating thoughtful, deep content that you can repurpose and utilize in advertising. And, you know, I think a lot of people, particularly on the video front, are hesitant to make that investment or don’t know how to manage those assets. And because of that, there aren’t enough of those assets, which tends to keep the cost and the ability to do really good video advertising down in there for the people who do it and kind of make the investment to see great results. Just it’s you know, it’s a hurdle to other people joining that market. So you have to go create the content, be thoughtful about it and do enough of it that you didn’t just produce one 30 second spot. You’ve got 10 minutes of content that you can cut up in different ways to find out what works best.

[00:28:27] Yeah, I will say the hack that we found is when we do go to the production studio, we have them shooting even while they’re doing photography.

[00:28:35] They’re shooting B roll all the time and we just capture a ton of B roll that we can repurpose. That’s almost more valuable than when you know, in the past when we first started out, you’d contract and someone would say, I’ll do it. And you work on your storyboard. But it is it’s a much heavier lift. There’s not an AB test of two pictures side by side. And you see which one works once you’ve created a video. Certainly once you’re over those 20 seconds, you’re having a conversation and it’s a little too late if you screwed up that first image or that first scene.

[00:29:06] And so, you know, my our bias is as much b roll always. You can always cut it up, edit it, redo it. And it’s relatively cheap to say, I just want you to shoot a whole bunch of B roll, bunch of B will put some people in a room and set up your scene. But B roll is way more valuable than a scripted out video to start.

[00:29:29] Yeah, I think that gets into the kind of content capture model as well. And that, you know, we’ve always looked at the opportunity to go do a shoot like that is if you own all the content from that day instead of owning like I want three finished thirty second pieces. Right. Because of the really cool data you can get from YouTube and from other advertisers on drop off points. And when people are engaging like it’s not good enough to get a 30 second spot and find out that seven second tune, no one’s paying attention anymore. Like there’s too many other options.

[00:30:01] Yeah. And you’re at that point, if you’re focused on those 30 second spots here, you won’t have the content you need to be able to repurpose and sort of swap something out.

[00:30:10] And it’s amazing what an off B roll shot can sometimes way perform something that was like that was actually planned. Part of the storyboard.

[00:30:21] Yeah, thinking things through is overrated sometimes. Sometimes you’re better off just letting the bureau come. You.

[00:30:26] Yeah, yeah. The organic part of video. I think when you just let it just let it go, it tends to perform way better than super planned.

[00:30:36] Do you need a plan otherwise you can’t get everyone in the room. But it’s really important that B roll part.

[00:30:42] Awesome. Well, we’ve gone a little bit down a video rabbit hole here, but I think it’s a really interesting place, the place to play.

[00:30:49] So as we wrap up, we always ask folks if you’ve had an experience where kind of the work behind the curtain maybe snuck out from behind the curtain and a blog post got published before it was ready. Or we’ve mentioned photography here today where there was a red photo on a cold copy. You know what, if any experience, if you guys had with maybe letting things not through the right approval process or jumping the gun on post into early or something that maybe we all probably wouldn’t notice anymore. But experience of when the process, the technology, everything didn’t quite go according to plan.

[00:31:29] Yeah. So, you know, I think one of our biggest it’s great to be successful and double your employees in a year is awesome.

[00:31:37] But adding those processes along the way and where all those double checks are is constantly and I would say this August when we launched a new pad, our email delivery was amazing. They the content person spelled it all out. It was amazing. And then it didn’t translate to the site. So people are like, well, the email actually explains. The whole thing better than the sights, and so we created all the content, it was ours, it just didn’t it didn’t make it all the way to the site, didn’t get pushed through the dev part. So it is it’s really it’s really hard to dot all those I’s and cross all those T’s. And especially as you’re adding new people and new roles, it is constantly a chase to make sure that our QC on every front is where it needs to be.

[00:32:28] Yeah. The just the ability to make sure all those different customers coming in from different paths with different creative. And I’m glad you mentioned the asset management tool as well on the creative front. I think that’s an easy thing to overlook. And if things get lost in the shuffle. So I think that’s a good tip. And Don and appreciate you joining us. Is there a final plug that you’d like to give here for either some of the content you guys produce or do you personally to keep an eye on kind of what you guys are doing in the e-commerce space?

[00:32:58] Yeah. So if you want to know more about us, our website is Chili Technology dot com. If you want to check me out as far as sleep, I my sleep geek handle is the sleep geek on Facebook and Instagram, because on the side where I’m not doing e-commerce stuff, I really do geek out on sleep and our blogs can help you sleep better.

[00:33:20] I do believe that and we do hope that the whole world someday will really recognize how important the sleep thing is and spend more time on it. So please go and find that content, find out, find a way to make sleep a better, more important part of your life.

[00:33:36] Awesome. Thank you, Tara. Thanks for having me.

[00:33:42] You’ve been listening to Marketing Behind the Curtain to ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribed to the show in your favorite podcast player. Thanks so much for listening. Until next time.

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